Young Smart Money Transcripts: How To Diagnose And Solve A Profitability Problem with Mike Michalowicz

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Author of Fix This Next, Profit First, Clockwork, The Pumpkin Plan and more, Mike Michalowicz.

Meet Mike Micalowicz

I am the author of ‘Clockwork’, ‘Profit First’, ‘The Pumpkin Plan’ and ‘The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur’. BusinessWeek called Toilet Paper Entrepreneur a business cult classic. My books have been translated into 10 languages.

I am also the founder of Profit First Professionals. The Profit First Professional organization is designed to support accountants, bookkeepers and other financial professionals to substantially differentiate themselves in the market – so they can dictate a premium for their services and attract more clients. How do we do it? By introducing a significant service differentiator – the tools and techniques to maximize the profitability of your clients. If you own a bookkeeping or accounting business, and you want to distinguish yourself from your competitors… consider applying to be a Profit First Professional.

I am a co-founder of Provendus Group, a business growth consultancy. I have founded, built and sold two technology service based companies. My second company, PG Lewis & Associates, was sold in a public transaction in 2006. My first company was acquired by private equity.

I enjoy entrepreneurialism and gladly share experiences and advice with first time entrepreneurs. I am regularly invited to sit on both formal and informal advisory boards and have relationships with the angel and early-stage investment community.

Listen to the episode on Apple PodcastsSpotifyStitcherCastboxGoogle Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Mike Michalowicz
This represents what I call the survival trap. That we make actions. We take actions in the immediate moment to to serve a crisis or need without consideration for where the business needs us.

Apple Crider

Welcome back to young smart money with me Your host Apple Crider. Today we are sitting down with Mike Michalowicz. Mike is someone who has scaled for businesses past the multi million dollar mark exited two of them one of them to a fortune 500 company. So this dude knows a little bit about starting and scaling businesses to say the least all of that was before he even turned 35. So this guy’s this guy’s got some experience and he’s got a couple books that I am a huge fan of one of them is profit first, which is actually the book that dictates the philosophy in that book dictates my entire accounting style with my business. So had a huge, huge impact on me. My mom actually in her business uses the same accounting system fun factors. He’s the one that turned me on to this book, super, super cool system. My business banker, Ty over at US Bank did think I was crazy. When I came in for the first time told him I wanted to open five different business checking accounts, because that’s part of the system sounds a lot more confusing than it is. But I would highly recommend you check out that book. But today we’re talking with Mike about both that system how to increase both the money And then just the overall profits in your business through a couple different systems and strategies that he has outlined both in profit first, and then in his new book fix this next, which is a tongue twister that I struggle with a couple times in the episode. So be prepared for that. So yeah, we’re diving into basically his his tools, his systems for increasing the profits in your business because a lot of people they have they think they have a sales problem, but they actually have a profit problem which which Mike dives into how you actually diagnose whether you have a sales problem or a profit problem. It’s quite simple. And most people, they think if they just sell a little bit more, that’s that’s going to take them to where they need to be. In reality, it’s not the case and what they are really looking at is a profitability problem. So we’re talking about how to diagnose that and then how to actually fix it. Once you realize that a profit problem is what you have. So I’m super stoked for this conversation. Again, Mike is someone who I respect a lot his accounting system has really, really helped me out both in just my sanity and then also increasing the actual margins of business, which is always a good thing when you have that stability when you have those profits in the bank that you can turn to whenever you need them, especially when there’s crazy stuff going on in the world like there is right now. So without further ado, sit back, relax and enjoy this conversation with Mike Michalowicz. All right, Mike. Welcome to young smart money. How are you doing today?

Mike Michalowicz
I’m doing well, Apple. Thanks so much for having me.

Apple Crider
Yeah, it’s my pleasure. So there’s a couple things that I really want to dive into in this episode. So you just dropped this new book called fix this. Next, take us a little bit behind the scenes and share with us how this tool kinda came to be.

Mike Michalowicz
So I’m very blessed to have quite a few readers that now I’m in regular contact with. So I send out surveys often. And I reached out to my community and said, this is about five years ago. It takes me about five years to write a book. I said, What’s the biggest challenge you’re facing in your business now, and the feedback was all over the place. In fact, some of the same people responded multiple times. The same De with whole new business challenges. So it was clear to me that the biggest challenge business owners have is knowing what their biggest challenge is. That became the the premise for this book. So that’s what I explore in this is how do we identify what we need to work on. Because, you know, you know this there is a constant stream of these apparent issues, we, we need to do this, we need to do that we’re putting out fires regularly. But what’s the one thing that move our business forward. So that’s the premise of this book.

Apple Crider
Sweet, sweet and that’s something that I am struggling with on a day to day basis. And I know a lot of our listeners are as well as mostly young entrepreneurs. In addition to just having all of these crazy things going on in our businesses, just know that the fact that our brains aren’t even fully developed to try to make these decisions and prioritize things is a whole nother set of challenges just on top of that,

Mike Michalowicz
yeah, and then we have this crazy insanity going on, right with with shutdowns and all this different stuff. It is sending all of us in this mess of stress and how people respond normally to stressful situations is through you. Usually either shut down or more panic, more desperate moves. And so it’s actually more important than ever now to have that deliberate pause all these channels going on to stop for a minute to figure out what is the right thing to do. And so I’m hoping this, this tool and fix this next will provide that we can just pause for a moment, pinpoint what our business needs from us most focus on that area to serve our business and move deliberately forward. There’s actually a example I share in the book that you can do just in your own head, you can do a piece paper, but in your mind, if you had a piece of paper, in the center of like a legal pad, you write the letter A and you put a circle. And when a represents is where you are in this moment in your business, the crisis moment or the opportunity or whatever it is, but what’s what’s this moment presenting, then draw an arrow away from point A in any direction. And what the arrows signifies is a way to move forward from point A to get out of point A if it’s crisis, or to leap on that opportunity. But now you can draw another Arrow in a different direction. So maybe drew the first one to the right, you draw it to the left. And that arrow also gets you out of point A. And you can continue to do this, you know, 510 times, every arrow you draw in a different direction actually serves you in the moment because you get out of immediate crisis. But now is the next and final step. Draw the letter B in a circle in the bottom left corner of that piece of paper. And if you do that, chances are and if you’ve been doing your mind, chances are none of the arrows or few of the arrows point to be there all over the place. And this represents what I call the survival trap. That we make actions, we take actions in the immediate moment to to serve a crisis or need without consideration for where the business needs us. So point B represents where the business needs us most right now what we need to do. So if we simply know what to do, if we if we have a and then we draw point B first, then we know Okay, every consideration I’m making, is it moving me in that direction will become much more thoughtful, much, much more deliberate many business owners do is you draw this arrow out of point A, and you’re simply a new point A. And then we draw another arrow out and start this circuitous pattern by knowing where to go. We can move in that direction, of course.

Apple Crider
Sweet. And so much of the book just revolves around, like figuring out like, Where is point B? And how do I actually get there? So how walk us through some of those tools that that you present? How do you figure out where that point B is? So that you’re actually drawing the arrow to the bottom left corner of the page?

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, great question. So the main tool is called the business hierarchy of needs, and what it is devised after his Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, so if you’re familiar with Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, he was a philosopher studying kind of human human needs, and came up with this hierarchy, with a mru that the foundational need for all of humanity is that we have physiological needs we need to breathe there, need to drink water, need to eat food, our survival depends on it. But once needs are adequately service are satisfied, we then Elevate to the next level need. And the next level need is safety. We need protection from the elements. You’re in Minneapolis, you know, some the winters out there. If you’re outside and a T shirt, when one of those crazy storms comes through, you have to seek shelter, you need clothing, otherwise you’ll die of hypothermia. So that’s a need for safety. But what’s interesting is even at this level, the hierarchy starts to present itself. If someone runs up behind you puts a plastic bag over your head and wraps duct tape around your throat. Now, even though there’s this freezing storm coming through our biologic responses to tear away that bag because we are suffocating, oxygen takes priority over safety. But once we have that base level need the physiological needs satisfied, then safety becomes our primary concern. Once that satisfied Maslow’s Hierarchy there’s things called belonging, the necessity for companionship and so worth it in the highest level self actualization. Well, the business argued needs follows a similar structure. With one distinct difference, Every business has fundamental needs. And as regards the business you’re in, you can be manufacturing or professional services. You could be, you know, running a pizza shop, or you could be making equipment somewhere down the road or anything in between any kind of business. There’s a common DNA, but just like humanity, if you look the outside skin of people and judge them on their skin, sadly which we do, we see the differences but when you peel back the skin, you and I and all humanity are the same. You are our biological makeups identical our hearts in the same spot. Like if I went to a heart surgeon because I’m having a heart attack. The heart surgeon wouldn’t say hey, before we get started, Mike is your heart in your foot or Where do you keep your it’s always in the chest of course, so they know exactly what to do, and they can repeat the process. Well, the essence of business is the same. When we need to work on the business. The core biology of the business is identical. It follows Maslow’s hierarchy, the base level of all businesses sales, every business needs to produce cash. That’s what sales does. Once you have that adequately addressed, that’s your oxygen, the next level of business is still profit. Profit translates to stability of an organization. And these these levels work in relation, you have to have adequate sales to support profit, you don’t need massive sales. And sadly, that’s the mistake I see so many business owners make thinking, we’re in point A, this is not doing well, we need to sell more draw arrow out when the real need is to, excuse me introduce stability to the business to actually extract profit from what’s already exist and concentrate our efforts there. Above profit is the level called Order. Order is the creation of organizational efficiency, where there is no dependency on the owner, you don’t have to carry the business on your back, and there’s a dependency on the linchpin employee. The business is designed to operate even when there’s crisis or challenge. The next level above that’s called impact. Impact is the creation of transformation. This is where businesses are not just the transactional component of their business, but they realize their transactions actually transforming people’s Live will have the opportunity to do that the highest level called legacy. That’s the creation of permanence. What we want to do with this model this campus is we simply asked her questions always during the base saying, are we creating cash? are we creating any cash? If so, you have some degree of sales, then the question is, are those sales adequate to support some degree of profitability? The answer’s no, then you have to generate more sales. But if you have some sales coming in, and we investigate profitability, then we start asking, why aren’t we profit from the sales that we do have? Maybe that’s where our challenges once we established profitability, then we could say now we can introduce organizational efficiency, because the business is creating cash, it’s financially stable. Now we can introduce efficiencies throughout the organization. And the model continues this way. The last point I want to make is it’s not a ladder, you don’t like climb to the top of legacy and just wave at your friends from up there. This is something we cycle through. So you’ll be climbing and then all of a sudden something changes and you need to go back to the base, the foundation cracks. What we’re experiencing right now with this macro economic crisis. That’s an enforcing micro crisis for businesses, lobbyists do need to revert back to the base, they need to fix something in profit or sales before they can get back to having the big impact that they were having.

Apple Crider
Sweet. That was an extremely valuable rundown of that tool. And I want to dive into specifically the profit layer because from from what I’ve heard from a lot of our listeners, they have businesses, they’re making some money. And this show is a personal finance show. So I think it’s only fitting that we that we dive into the Profit System. So tell us a little bit more about so if if the listener establishes, okay, I have some cash flow coming in the door. But I’m not really taking anything home, like, like, I’m making sales. I’m picking up the phone, I’m going online, I’m selling stuff through my Facebook ads or whatever, but I’m not taking home any money at the end of the day. What are some tools or like, how do they dive into that profit layer and figure out okay, where’s the issue happening? Where are the inefficiencies? And where am I just like, Where’s the margin? big loss?

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, so the first thing that we start off with is actually our lifestyle and define what we need for bass level comfort, I should call it livestock and grunts I talked about and fix this next. That’s the starting point of, if you own a business or if you are a commissioned salesperson, or just a professional of any type, or have any kind of job, we always need to find what is the base level of our comfort home, not our aspiration. We will talk about that too, but but starts off with our base level of comfort. Because once you know your base level comfort, then you know the minimum requirement you have before you’ll start experiencing internal stress and discomfort. That translates into back to the business or the work you do of how many sales or how much sales you need. Once we figure that out, and the sales aren’t adequately supporting us, then we got to look at if we’re running a business, what are the things we have control over? And if we’re not running a business, what do we have control over? inevitably, we run too much costs. You know, one little hack I said, event recently, in response to the crisis and one little hack that people can do is When you can’t pay your bills or feel this constant stress, don’t cancel your credit cards and debit cards, but reissue them. And the difference here is that you can call the credit card company or debit card company and say, please give me a brand new card new number, just protect the car because I think it may have been, is maybe not being used properly. But do not transfer over subscriptions and recurrent payments, I want to stop on everything. And what will happen is now you retain your credit ability. But now you will get calls from all the people that were collecting my cards and what’s going on, something happened. It’s a great way to see who you’ve been paying. Because the problem particularly in stressful times is we’re under such panic. We don’t have the time or really the conscious ability to get into the nitty gritty, and therefore, these subscriptions or costs were incurring will sustain. I did this myself. I had a gym membership. I didn’t realize for a year and a half I wasn’t using I was really paying attention. I’m embarrassed about that. Both the reality and I don’t know if I would have caught it. Because I, there was too much other important things going on. So by simply reissuing the card that came to light, and I was simply able to cancel because it was something I wasn’t using. So I would look at cost control. The other element I look at is margins, is there any way we can increase margins, increasing margin means dictating a higher price point for whatever you’re providing, and sustaining or reducing the cost that increases margin. And I think the default protocols from some people right now is we’ve got to cut costs. It’s all about cutting costs. But really, it’s more about increasing value. What more can you do, and if you do more, that really is of service to people, people will pay for that. So there’s maybe an opportunity to increase prices or to sustain prices instead of cutting them. So we want to look at increasing value first before we talk about cutting prices, because that’s only going to hurt us more in our personal finances.

Apple Crider
Totally agree. Totally agree. So what what have been some good strategies. I really liked that example of getting your cards reissued. Because Yeah, then everything It’s just automatically billing you every single month that you’ve totally forgotten about and aren’t using anymore. Just just comes to a stop and you kind of have a chance to reevaluate like what’s actually important.

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, so you want another strategy. So here’s one that I love is a small business or are your independent professional or even just just for your own tracking, I suggest to everyone if you use an accounting system, set up an account for COVID. And, seriously, I got an account that says COVID. And what you do is any expenses you incur, to manage the crisis, however, it’s impacting you maybe gotta buy more cleaning supplies, maybe have to conduct some meetings and spend time on on communication around this. You track it into the corporate account. And the reason is, it was really twofold in the future. There may be reimbursements from the government, there’s so much law passing is changing. So dynamically right now it’s hard to keep up with, but there could be insurance or government reimbursements for consequences from COVID Well, now you have an accounting for it. So it’s very easy to produce and say, oh, here’s what I incurred. Because of this. Also, there’s a thing called recasting. And if you ever need to prove your performance to an employer, or if you ever have a small business, you need to sell it. And you see this performance dip. Now you can say, Well, if COVID didn’t happen, this time wouldn’t have been spent here. This these expenses were incurred in the performance would have been so and so. So you can argue for a raise if you’re an employee, or if you own a business, you can show to maybe a potential acquire what your true value would have been. Or if you’re seeking alone in the future, you can point to this Blip. So even actually, even if you don’t have an accounting system, just write a journal tracking the time you spend on COVID It’s a powerful way to point back to this anomaly. articularly so you can explain if anything happens negatively. Why this this was triggered by this.

Apple Crider
That’s I mean, that’s that’s a really, really cool idea. And I’m definitely going to start implementing that whether it is yeah, journal or even Adding another account to the mix and just tracking expenses because there’s definitely been significant ramifications to my business to my personal expenses and to a lot of things in my life due to what’s going on right now.

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, exactly. There’s there’s a lot of impact. And it’s much easier in the moment. So you know, I don’t have to worry about that as I get stuff done. And I’ll get back to that. But there’s a lot of stuff happening every single day, a quick journal entry or accounting entry can take less than 30 seconds, and you’ll be grateful. You’ll be grateful in the future.

Apple Crider
Absolutely. So another topic that I I’m really interested to hear your thoughts about are those entrepreneurs who say they’re reinvesting their profits back into the business because a lot of young people especially, they tell me, well, if I wanted to be making money from my business, I could be but I’m just reinvesting all my profits into marketing or into improving my product or into all these different things. What are what are your thoughts on that?

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, so I’m pretty callous about that. There is no such thing as reinvesting or plow backs. Those are terms we use They’re soft, nice, comfortable terms, but it means your business is not profitable. You’re something fundamentally flawed with your business. So I wrote a book called profit first and well until the shutdowns where you can’t travel or speak anymore. Tons of speaking engagements. And when I was on stage, I use presentation a person remembers one business owner came up in a nice size, small business like a $3 million business. And she said, I saw your presentation. I don’t need to drive more profit, we have 28% profit, like wow, that’s for any business. That’s a good number. I said, Tell me what what did you do with it? How did you celebrate? Put back in the business? I plowed it back. I said, What would you do with it? She is where the business spent all the money because we needed different tools and equipment. So I said okay, so you had zero profit, you maybe had a nice soft accounting term, he says a profit, but you’ve no profit. profit in the truest sense, is cash left at the end of the day for only two purposes. One is for reward to the shareholders, or one is retention by the company for the ultimate reward to the shareholders. Profit is something that gets sent to the people that sent the bill. Are started or run the business or own the business. So when we use ploughed back or reinvest, I challenges people say those are all expenses. Why are you running? So why is there so much expense, I challenge people to become more innovative in how they use their money and retain that profit. Here’s the most interesting thing if you take your profit first you hide away from your business. You take your pay yourself, first you hide away from yourself, your lifestyle, adjust your business adjust you, you will surprise yourself how innovative you become. And that, to me is the essence of a good business. We need that discipline from day one. Because as we grow, profit becomes even more important. You can’t You can’t live off fumes forever.

Apple Crider
I totally agree. And I think for a lot of people, myself included before I read profit first, like it was a lot easier to think about that than to actually do it because in my mind, I’m like, Well, I could take that but if I just put it back in and spend some more on marketing or spend some more on whatever, and like maybe I could get a little bit farther and then and then maybe tomorrow I could take the profit and then and then tomorrow I could take the profits. So, what do you what do you say to the person who’s like, Well, I think I understand that, but I just want to put it back in and make it grow even more right now.

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, at two things, first of all, realize you’re giving loans to the company. So in action, what I would do is actually take the money out as a distribution, and I loan it back to the company, so you have something on the records, and you don’t have to physically do that. But do that in the county record. And you’ll be you’ll see it changes your mind shift, because now it’s once we possess something, it’s human nature. For us, but more significance. It’s called loss aversion. If I buy I see a nice red sports car, I want to own one day in the parking lot of some dealer. I may say that’s exciting. I can’t wait to have it one day. But if I make the effort one day, have it well now is my baby. And I will do anything to retain it. And if I can afford those payments, I’ll drop the insurance. I’ll keep it last and gradual never driving because it’s my baby. So we have more pain associated with losing something than desire to gain something as a point. So once we give ourselves that distribution of profit and we put back in the business Actually pain becomes much greater than just never touching the first place. So I would do that as a first step, because now you really value that money. Second step is, now that’s alone, we have to do what’s called debt leveraging. Debt leveraging is where you know, that when you make an investment, exactly what return you’ll get it apples, you gave me $100. That’s it all. Thank you so much. And I was able to make $200 a month from now on that hundred dollars. That’s what that leveraging, because I can do now is pay you back 100 I owe you plus interest and have a return for me. But most people do the instead of doing an ROI, a clear return on investment calculation. Instead, they just guesstimate so you know, I really got to do more marketing, everyone else is doing it. And these are called pot shots. pot shots are very dangerous. There’s no empirical data behind it. It’s just a guess. And many of it fails now, right? Well, you know it, it didn’t work or I didn’t really even think about it. But at least at least you know, it was our profit in the business anyway. So let’s do this again. And we really put very little significance Not money, which undermines the health of the company long term. As an outside investor, I make no way do I want to invest in a company or the owner is flippantly making decisions without calculations. It’s not profitable. So we really need to get empirical data and ensure we’re doing debt leveraging, not potshots.

Apple Crider
Totally agree. So for someone who currently is taking next to zero profits, what are what are some good first steps other than just knowing like, Okay, I need to start taking profits out of my business, what are some first steps they can start taking to turn that from just an idea into a reality?

Mike Michalowicz
Yeah, so I talked about that extensively in profit first, and I reiterate it and fix this. Next, what we do is we set up an account. What I found is most small business owners if you’re like me, I don’t read my accounting statements. I don’t tie in the cash flow to balance sheet Actually, I don’t even know how to read a balance sheet or cash flow statement. The one thing I can kind of read is an income statement. But what we’re supposed to do is tie them together because collectively, they show all the elements the business. So instead I follow a different system, what I do is bank balance accounting, I log into my bank account. And if our simple rule, if I have money, I can spend it if I don’t I panic to make more money, if that’s my system. Well, I realized that that system wasn’t just unique to me, many small business owners follow that system. And I also found is, it is in the best interest to get results for us not to change our habits because changing habits is so hard instead channel or habits meaning can we maintain what we do but put a system around it actually drives the result we want, because then we’re going to crush it. And that’s what we do is probably the first if you log into your bank accounts regularly see how much money you have and if you can spend it, we’re gonna keep doing that. But we’re gonna change the system we’re gonna set up multiple accounts and we set up one account called a profit account among others. Then when money flows in we take a predetermined percentage of that money 1% 2% ultimately more in allocate to a profit. You literally Take your profit first. That’s why I called the book why I called it. So if $1,000 of deposits come in, and we say we’re gonna take 1% of that money, and by the way, if you’ve never had profit before, I suggest starting very slow, and letting it grow. So start with 1% thousand bucks comes in 1%, that’s 10 bucks. And so now we allocate $10 to profit. And if you can run your business and your the work, you do off 1000 hours, you can write off $990. But now $10 in profit account, and I know I’m gonna have an extra, oh my gosh, I actually have a little cash profit. And you keep allocating and starts growing, then you’re like, well, if I do two or 3%, and you start building that profit muscle, so that the lesson here is set up a distinct account exclusively and specifically for profit, don’t use it for any other purpose. It’s just to go there and profits always out to reward you, the business owner, the professional not to be plowed back in the business. We talked about that. So okay, 1% that that muscle grow and go to two or 3% and it will start awakening you to the power of taking the profit first. And your business will automatically with your direction, start adjusting and morphing to what it really should be running off

Apple Crider
are totally I totally agree. And it’s been really cool as I’ve implemented profit first over the last about a year now just to see that profit account continue to grow, take those distributions. And it’s I don’t know, it’s just a really cool feeling to see that like, Okay, this is like actually generating consistent profits that I’m able to go do stuff with. So

Mike Michalowicz
and yeah, and Apple, you’ve defined stability, right? So I can’t speak for your your feelings, but I presume that as this profit grows, you’re like, Hey, I feel more comfort that when tough times come like we’re experiencing now, I have a method and maybe even a little bit of a cash reserve. That’s powerful. You know, it’s saddled so many businesses as I’m watching this, you know, it started way back in the beginning of May, I may have March and became Marshall and really kicked off right so March, April. Now May, that that businesses right on like a week or two into this didn’t have enough stability in the organization to plan for profit. They couldn’t even make it A week or two without going out of business. That’s really a sad state of affairs. The businesses that establish a profit habit, even if you haven’t had one, historically, this is the time to start doing it. Start small, but those are the businesses that can sustain and get through a situation like we’re in.

Apple Crider
I totally agree. And there’s this restaurant that I actually used to work out. It’s about a mile away from my house. That was in the newspaper here, because they, within about a week of things hitting the fan, they they couldn’t pay their employees, they their employees didn’t get paid for their last two weeks of work, because the owner was out of money. And the owner, she basically she was filing for unemployment. She had nothing to pay these before and they’ve been working for her for the last couple weeks. They didn’t get their tips, they didn’t get their salary. They didn’t get anything. So I mean, that just shows how many businesses they’re just running on razor thin margins that if something slips up, they’re done.

Mike Michalowicz
That it was Warren Buffett I probably bashed by the wayside but Warren Buffett I think said as the tide goes out, or when the tide goes out, you see Who was swimming naked. And that’s what we’re experiencing now. And that’s why so many businesses have gone out during a booming period or a strong period. You can live week to week or or check the check. But the second or one blip either in a micro basis or you have one province or business or a macro. It puts you out and that’s a shame. That’s a super shame.

Apple Crider
Yeah, it sucks because you have a lot of those people there. I still still know them and they’re just they’re just out of luck. Yeah, they’re screwed. Yeah. And well, I’m sorry to end on a bummer Mike, but I really I really do appreciate your time your work and the listeners go if they want to follow up with you learn more about fix this and fix this next or profit first or any of your other books and engagements.

Mike Michalowicz
I actually have two spots. So with fixed this next, I suggest one to fix this next.com. And the reason you can go there is there’s information on the book and so forth, but there’s a free evaluation. You can evaluate your business or your career immediately. Is 25 questions and I’ll pinpoint here’s where you got to concentrate your attention so it’s a real good competence and it’s it’s a it’s free there’s no download or anything you just click it it gives you the answer and you’re off to the races. And if you want to pursue fixes next to there’s details on the book and then for the kind of my domain of books I’ve written because I’ve written quite a few now you can go to Mike motorbike calm it’s actually Mike mccalla Wits but notice that my nickname in high school is Mike motorbike never driven a motorcycle. I have no desire, but you can go to Mike motorbike as the motorcycle calm and hit my books. I have I sorry for the Wall Street Journal. You can get those articles for free. And I have a podcast called entrepreneurship elevated. You can access through Mikemotorbike.com,

sweet Mikemotorbike.com fixthisnext.com or the third time’s the charm Third time’s the charm. All right, Mike, any last closing thoughts you want to leave the listeners with today?

Yeah, just listen, whatever you do if you if you own a small business, if you if you have a career and you’re working with a small business The world has punched us in the face, right? I mean, we got bloody nose and a black eye and the world as it punches in the face and I need you more than ever now. So it’s kind of a sad it’s kind of ironic. But the reality is, the world needs us to step up. So let’s step up and start pushing hard. I know it’s not going to be easy, but we will get through this and if you push hard,

Apple Crider
you will be the leader getting through this. So good luck. Words of wisdom. Thank you so much for your time, Mike. I really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, so that is a wrap. Thanks again to Mike for hopping on the show. It was a blast getting to chat with him and again, Mike, motorbike calm and fix this next.com are the places to go to learn more about Mike’s systems get his free tools, and all of that good stuff. Now, if you’re listening to the show, and you’re new here or you haven’t taken the time to drop the review on iTunes yet that does mean a ton to me. I know over 200 of you have already done that. I’ve read every single one Have reviews and they are just it’s super encouraging and also just informational to know what you guys are enjoying and what things that you see room for improvement on so if you enjoyed this episode or if you didn’t head on over to Apple podcasts or your podcast listening platform of choice and drop a quick rating and review really does help out the show and it shows me what you like and what you don’t once you’re done with that. If you want the Show Notes for this episode or the resources mentioned, head on over to Apple crater.com or Apple crider.com slash resources respectively. Apple Crider spelled like cider, just throw an R in there. So that’s CRI d e r. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode and I look forward to seeing you in the next one. In the meantime, stay safe and have a wonderful rest of your day.

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